Proven fact Vs. Theory (part II the big bang)

So has the modern theory on how life to the universe proved the account in the Torah wrong?No and I’ll explain and does the belief in science that the universe is 13.8 billion years old disprove the Genesis account? No and I’ll explain.

So before the big bang the universe in generally believed to have been very hot and very compact and some say of infinite density,sort of like the conditions of a black hole.Infinite density would assume equal gravity,that’s issue 1 with the BBT without a divine assistance, is that black hole level gravity means in order the escape a black hole something must travel above light speed.No form of mass can ever travel light speed so it is impossible in my mind for mass to have been able to expand in conditions with that high gravity.For me that sinks the big bang ,infinite mass can not ever expand.Now lets talk about the “B’reishit or Genesis.

Gen.1:1-2 (I won’t offer an Eng. translation because it’s well known)

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ:

הָאָ֗רֶץ הָֽיְתָ֥ה תֹ֨הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ וְח֖שֶׁךְ עַל־פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם

וְר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים מְרַחֶ֖פֶת עַל־פְּנֵ֥י הַמָּֽיִם:

“In the begining of God’s creation with the heavans and with the earth.

the earth was astonishingly empty and darkness was upon the face of the abyss(the deep also)

the spirit of God hovered upon the face of the waters.”

The use of the word tohu תהו in Biblical Hebrew means more than chaos but profound or astonishing chaos and the word t’hom תהום meaning abyss usually is interpreted as unformed chaotic water reserves,so English translation typically say “the deep”

It sounds like science has not disproven the Bible and matter of fact the Genesis creation account was far closer to modern science then earlier pagan creation accounts.So Genesis describes well what the state of the universe before the expansion of matter and energy happened.Now big bang theorists say this was less an explosion but a fast expansion of space and time co-equally.This makes great sense in that God molded and formed matter,energy,space and time like clay.After God said let there be light ,later on he put the stars in orbit in such a way as to give light to the day and light to the night and be signals for seasons,days and years.(Gen.1:14-19

So what about a six day creation vs. a universe that is 13.8 billion years old?

Is mathematical time the same as physical time,not always.Their sameness relies on the forces of nature being constant.Science can’t know how many ticks on a clock occured since the begining of the universe,they measure physical time based on calculations on how things age.It’s approximated that the universe is about 13.7-13.8 billion years old based on the oldest stars and expansion since the big bang.However if the forces at work in the universe were not constant then the that throws off time estimates.For instance it’s believed the Rocky mountains are newer than the Appalachians near where I live.It is the forces of nature that age a mountain range and if the forces of nature that aged the Appalachians were more intense in the days of creation then were the forces of nature that aged the Rockies.They say the Appalacians were formed when Africa crashed into North America and that is why Africa sort of looks like it fits into North America.This makes sense because the Appalachians are not growing and more or less jolted up when Africa collided with North America and then stopped growing soon after whereas the rockies continue to grow.But this does not prove that one is older than the other.God could have quickly caused Africa to crash into North America and used other forces to grow the rockies,mainly tectonic forces.

I live in an area where winters are harsh and the salt and sand used to de-ice the roads ages cars quite quickly.I had to get rid of a Subaru with only 82K miles on it because it was so rusted out including the under carriage(mostly the under carriage).Had the same car been driven 82,000 miles in Texas it would have been in mint condition or had my car been garaged in New England as well but I live in an apartment.So winters really beat my car up.So there is a clear difference between physical time and mathematical time and don’t get me wrong I don’t dispute that the universe has been aged 13 billion years but that does not make it 13.7 billion years on ticks on a clock.

Regardless of what mainstrean science says the universe can and likely is less than 10K years in age.Remember God controls time and not vice versa ,God can and does manipulate time like silly puddy ,don’t forget time slows down as it approaches the speed of light and may stop at the speed of light.Matter of fact Danish scientist Lene Hau stopped light from moving in 2001.So why couldn’t God stop light and this likely as Eintein believed stopping light would stop time.

If God can stop time by stopping light then this fully throws off any notion of the universes age in mathematic terms being accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lene_Hau#:~:text=In%201999%2C%20she%20led%20a,to%20stop%20a%20beam%20completely.

In Genesis/Breishit there was not mathematic time until God placed luminaries in the background of the heavens to signal ,seasons,days and years (Gen 1:14-19) and the “big bang” happened further back in Genesis 1:3 when God said “yehi or/let there be light”

So time did not exist as we know it in the primordial age of creation.So 13.7 billion years does not mean anything!

How plausible is the big bang happening randomly?

“If the rate of expansion one second after the BigBang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million it would have

recollapsed before it reached its present size. On

the other hand, if it had been greater by a part in a

million, the universe would have expanded too

rapidly for stars and planets to form.”

Stephen Hawking

There you have it from Stephen Hawking (hundred thousand million million is a quadrillion I think)

So the odds of the big bang happening randomly would not even be 1 in a million or a billion but in the quadrillions.There is something called big bang natural selection,meaning that there were many failed BB’s before one worked but likely the number of the failed BB’s would have had to have been in the billions or trillions or even quadrillions with billions of years between each big bang.Because the failed BB’s would result in massive black holes which would take a long time to become dense enough to re-expand.

Also what I pointed out earlier that if the conditions of a pre big bang universe should in theory have had black hole level gravity.No mass or even light can escape a black hole.That is why they are called black holes because light can not escape,if you went inside a BH they would likely be well eluminated but the light can’t ever escape.I don’t think there is any chance of a random big bang.


Comments

37 responses to “Proven fact Vs. Theory (part II the big bang)”

  1. your “torah” has nonsense that the sky is a solid dome and stars are little lights in it that can fall on the earth. theists do love to pick and choose what to claim is metaphor and literal in their supposed holy books.

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    1. I never said that that the sky is a dome,the word for firmament translates best to “background” in my opion.If you read my blog then you know I spoke of the reality of black holes.Re read if you like!

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      1. Yep, your opinion doesn’t count for much considering how the term is for a solid surface, raqia, not a “background”.

        Yep, black holes seem to exist. Still no evidence for your imaginary friend, nor any evidence that your primitive myths talk about anything modern scientists know now.

        and this bit of nonsense “For instance it’s believed the Rocky mountains are newer than the Appalachians near where I live.It is the forces of nature that age a mountain range and if the forces of nature that aged the Appalachians were more intense in the days of creation then were the forces of nature that aged the Rockies.They say the Appalacians were formed when Africa crashed into North America and that is why Africa sort of looks like it fits into North America.This makes sense because the Appalachians are not growing and more or less jolted up when Africa collided with North America and then stopped growing soon after whereas the rockies continue to grow.But this does not prove that one is older than the other.God could have quickly caused Africa to crash into North America and used other forces to grow the rockies,mainly tectonic forces.”

        I’m a geologist, and you are far off the mark with your ignorance. No evidence of your god doing any of this nonsense, and we can tell how old things are. All you have are baseless claims that somehow physical laws somehow changed, something that has no evidence for it at all.

        creationists are always amusing since you can’t agree on what nonsense you want to make up and can’t even convince each other that your baseless claims are true.

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      2. I think the original meaning of raki’a was to expand or spread out or expanse and the solid dome theory came later.It also does share a root with reka meaning background too.I’m pretty sure that Africa did contact North America ,I’d think I’d know something about the Appalachians being I live in the Taconics

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      3. the root term is to spread or beat out. Nothing shows that the solid dome theory came later. I see no source that says reka means “background”. Can you give me your source?

        There were at least two mountain building events, orogenies, the Taconic and the Acadian, before the Alleghanian. Wikipedia has decent articles on all.

        North America was formed by many smaller chunks, and is called Laurentia when it was part of super continents. During the alleghenian orogeny is when africa, as part of gondwana, and rose those mountains.

        I live in the appalachians, in central PA.

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      4. Yea ,or hammer out,I’d imagine in the bronze age you would expand a piece of bronze by hammering it out and making it wider an thinner.You are right in that to hammer out is what expand or expanse it rooted in.But yes reka/רֶקַע does mean background but it’s connection is speculation.
        TBO I could not keep up with you on the geology stuff,I live in western New England I’m not a geology expert but I’m sure it’s true NA and Africa did collide being at least a portion of the Applachians.It is true not every range is part of the appalacians like Metcomet-Monadnock range just east of the Berkshires but is not connect geologically.

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      5. funny how you can’t give an actual source to support your claim that reka means “background”. It seems you’ve simply made that up to excuse your ignorant torah.

        no evidence of what you claim regarding the appalachians. You seem to think that simply living in an area makes you an expert in its geology.

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      6. P.S
        You may know this you sound pretty smart but ancient near eastern words roots in a weapon is not uncommon like as disscused before to hammer out.The word Torah irself is rooted yarah meaning shooting or a common word for sin hatah meaning an archer missing the target.If you look at the proto-Sinaitic alfa bet many of the letters have a meaning in weapons.Weapons were quite existential to ancient peoples.

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      7. and still no source to support your claims about reka somehow meaning background. No idea why you are going on about what the root word for “torah” is.

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      8. I was talking about weapons and word meaning in ancient thats all.I can’t prove there is a connection between raki’a and reka but reka does mean background,that is simply true.רקע
        background, I pasted that from doitinhebrew.com

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      9. so, you have nothing but an attempt to try to make your myth resemble what science has shown.

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      10. The so called “myth” does resemble what science has shown

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      11. it does not since it can’t even get how stars are right.

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      12. Not sure what you are referring too??

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      13. “14 And God said, ‘Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth.’ And it was so. 16 God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. ”

        stars aren’t little lights in a dome.

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      14. I thought we agreed the Raki’a was an expansion not a dome

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      15. nope, I didn’t.

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      16. Ok,I guess we agree to disagree

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      17. you seem to be trying a typical theist tactic of pretending your baseless claim is equal to something supported by facts.

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      18. Maybe ,what are the other theists tactics.Human history is complex to have absolute fact for everything,theory and hypothesis will always be a part of it

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      19. yes history is complex. that still isnt’ a cover for your religion haveing no evidence for its claims despite 2000+ years of looking.

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      20. I look at it from the positive ,that for a book 3300 years old written by an ancient people in an ancient language it has been amazingly accurate

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      21. ROFL. Unsurprisingly, it’s not accurate at all, and not one of the events in it can be shown to have happened.

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      22. Give me one time the Bible was “PROVEN” wrong???

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      23. the city of Tyre still exists. Your ridiculous bible claims that this god destroyed it and no one will ever remember or find it.

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      24. Cities can be rebuilt,Tyre was destroyed twice and rebuilt twice.Your Bible reference is Ezekiel via the Babylonians.Tyre was again destroyed by Alexander the Great in 332 BCE and then rebuilt.

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      25. That’s not what your bible claims, Hoos. But nice try.

        “19 For thus says the Lord God: When I make you a city laid waste, like cities that are not inhabited, when I bring up the deep over you, and the great waters cover you, 20 then I will thrust you down with those who descend into the Pit, to the people of long ago, and I will make you live in the world below, among primeval ruins, with those who go down to the Pit, so that you will not be inhabited or have a place in the land of the living. 21 I will bring you to a dreadful end, and you shall be no more; though sought for, you will never be found again, says the Lord God.”

        if it was rebuilt, it was never forgotten.

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      26. The ancient city of Uruk lives on as modern Warka but it’s not the same place.Have you seen the new Hawaii 50 re-boot,it’s pretty good but the old Jack Lord Hawaii 50 is still gone forever.

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      27. Again, hoos, your bible doesn’t say that Tyre is rebuilt, it says no one will ever remember it. How can something be rebuilt if no one remembers it?

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      28. If you don’t believe the Bible ok,but you deny secular history that Alexander of Macedon destroyed it also in july of 332 BCE.Secular history doesn’t deny it was rebuilt at some point then.

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      29. Again, hoos, it doesn’t matter what alexander did. your bible claimed that no one would remember Tyre. You can’t rebuild what you don’t remember.

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      30. The original city of Tzor or Tyre could have been destroyed and forgotten but still rebuilt.In those times cities were associated with certain gods and idol worship was the cardinal sin of the old testament era.If the idol worshippers of the city were all killed of the city of Tyre could come back with a new spiritual direction.What was forgotten was the idols associated with Tzor/Tyre not the city streets itself.

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      31. Quite a false claim, Hoos. Do explain how your scenario would work. You have nothing to support your claims. You have to keep making things up to get around how your bible fails miserably.

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      32. It’s not false to say that the issue with the nations by nations ,nations other than Israel is the worship of idols.The Bible does not say worshipping idols is a problem,you are saying that is a false claim.

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      33. Yep, every cultist claims that anyh worship by theirs is idols, and not one of you failed cultists can show your claims to be true.

        it’s hilarious since your bible repeatedly says that worshippign idols is a problem.

        Exodus 20:4-5
        “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

        Isaiah 42:8
        I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

        Deuteronomy 5:9
        You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

        Isaiah 45:20
        “Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save.

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      34. One last example on Tyre and then I’m not arguing Tyre forever ,have other things to do.
        Last may a building down the street from me was burned down for insurance money.That building is gone forever but if a new building was rebuilt at 12 Morgan Pl are then going to say the first was never destroyed.

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      35. Again, Hoos, show how something can be completely forgotten but rebuilt.

        that’s a hilarious lie, Hoos. No, people won’t say that idiotic lie. There will be plenty of evidence that the new building isn’t the old. Your bible, and you, fail.

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